The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Building, Testing, and Scaling New Products

Do you have a great idea but don't know how to turn it into a market-ready product? Or are you worried your first shipment could end up unsellable? Join us as we speak with Jim Orrico, founder of Dream To Product, a company that has spent over a decade helping businesses design, assemble, and package groundbreaking new products, and even rescue defective products.

For the first time, Jim has stepped out from behind the scenes to launch his own product, the AC Saver™, and it’s already a hit. He reveals the complete process he uses to solve engineering challenges across multiple industries, the lessons he’s learned shifting from product developer to product marketer, and why market validation was essential before launching the AC Saver™. If you’ve ever wondered how to go from idea to impact, this episode is for you.

In today’s episode of the Harvest Growth Podcast, we cover:

• Why early market validation is essential before investing heavily in your idea.
• The importance of launching a minimum viable product instead of waiting for perfection.
• How to build a multidisciplinary team that can take a product from concept to market.
• Common mistakes inventors make that delay success and how to avoid them.
• The benefits of learning from real-world customer feedback early in the process.
• How to create scalable solutions that can grow beyond your first launch.

Visit www.myacsaver.com to learn more about the AC Saver™ and how it can help you stay cool while saving money. Also, check out www.dreamtoproduct.com if you need help with designing and building your product idea.

To be a guest on our next podcast, contact us today!

Do you have a brand that you’d like to launch or grow? Do you want help from a partner that has successfully launched hundreds of brands totaling over $2 billion in revenues? Visit HarvestGrowth.com and set up a free consultation with us today!

Transcript

Jon LaClare [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the show. Today's guest has spent years behind the scenes helping companies bring their product ideas to life, fixing engineering issues, improving existing designs, and even rescuing shipments from overseas that showed up unsellable. He shares the same problem solving process he's used to tackle thousands of product challenges, one that any business owner can apply to solve almost any problem you might be facing. And for the first time, he's launched a product on his own this year and it's already a hit. In this episode, you'll hear what made it successful, the lessons he's learned along the way, and how you can apply them to your own business. Let's dive in.

Announcer [00:00:36]:
Are you looking for new ways to make your sales grow? You've tried other podcasts, but they don't seem to know. Harvest the growth potential of your product or service as we share stories and strategies that'll make your competitors nervous. Now here's the host of the Harvest growth podcast, Jon LaClare.

Jon LaClare [00:00:57]:
Welcome back to the show. I'm really excited to be speaking with Jim Orrico today. He is the founder of Dream to Product and he'll explain a lot more of what that does. But he has a lot of experience of developing new products to bring to market. And then we're also going to talk about one specific product that, that he has developed himself and is marketing. So it's kind of an interesting background. He's helped so many other people. Now he's launching his own product and it's doing really well so far. But before we get into too many of the details, Jim, I just want to welcome you to the show.

Jim Orrico [00:01:27]:
Hi, Jon. Good to be here. Thank you.

Jon LaClare [00:01:30]:
Yeah, thanks for taking the time. I know you're crazy busy. On top of being the, you know, running Dream to Product, you're also a mechanical engineer and I know you get your hands dirty in a lot of the product development that you work on and running this AC saver business that we'll get into in a few minutes as well. So you're very busy, but appreciate the time and I think this is going to be really valuable and fun for our audience to really listen and to learn about. So let's talk about your dream to product business first. For those who aren't familiar with it, it's Dream to to product dot com. But can you describe what the business is, what it does?

Jim Orrico [00:02:05]:
Sure, Jon, and thanks for the opportunity to speak with you today. So dream the product is we turned 13 this year, so we've actually been around for, for quite a while. We're based in Evanston, Illinois and Dream the product was really born out of my passion for design of products that improve quality of life for people. I've done it through an almost 30 year career now all over the world for world class organizations. And I wanted to take that and actually bring it as a problem solving service to other, other people, other companies that don't necessarily have the resources that the, the big multinational companies do. So we're. And the other cool thing is that when you're designing a product it's scalable and you can touch a lot of people's lives with products. So that's why we, I started Dream the Product and a little bit more about what we do. So we're an ISO 9001 certified business which just means we take our quality seriously. And we have three services. The first is design, which keeps things really interesting around here. We are designing things, anything from variety of office products. We design LED lighting fixtures, medical devices used in surgery, water filtration devices. Really there's not many industries we don't solve problems in. And not only does it keep it interesting, but my team has made us very good problem solvers because some of our customers that are very familiar with their industry really know the, the, the solutions that are already existing in other industries that could be an innovation for them. So and then we also assemble and package products as a service. And we go from everything from packaging a product to help people quit smoking collectively. I mean we're building, we've built some of the most advanced 3D printers in the world here. We're currently building robots that increase the efficiency of growing marijuana. We build a product that doses bacteria into sewer lines to actually increase how the sewer lines stay clean, but then increase efficiency at the water treatment plant. So there's some really cool things we're doing here and, and also like designing and making a 3D printed puzzles to help with people that are legally blind and assessing their acuity during therapy sessions and things like that. So I do have some specific examples if you'd like to get a little deeper on some of the things we're most proud of.

Jon LaClare [00:05:28]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I'm glad you gave some very high level examples already. It just helps to understand. I'm sure there's a lot of inventors maybe listening right now that have, you know, trying to think of okay, what's my next idea? And it's interesting to think about, you know, realizing you don't need to be an expert in the full engineering design development. You can find A firm like yours, like dreamed product, like if you've got the idea, there are great companies like dream to product out there to help you now turn that idea into something tangible and manufacturable, if that's a word I could use. But you know, understand that full flow, that it's usable and something you can make and potentially package and ship. So you talked about high level ideas. Yeah, I'd love to hear a couple of examples of specific products you guys have worked on.

Jim Orrico [00:06:13]:
Yeah. So I'll give you one example for a large company and then one example for a very small company. And then actually I'll give you an example of a third service that I didn't mention yet that actually arguably we're most proud of. And so for the large customer, they already had an engineering team, it's a company called Metroflex. But they wanted to do more. And so we helped them design one of the most efficient water strainers in the world that they've won some awards on. And what's interesting is that that efficiency translates into energy savings. And then with them we figured out how to use add magnetic fields in their strainers that also take out some of the iron that causes the water pumps to wear more quickly over time. So we helped a large company that already had their own engineers make some innovations and it's really a sustainability story, saving energy. And we actually make the magnetic sub assemblies here for those, for those water strainers, which is really cool. Then for a really small company, we helped Lock Caddy which was a startup, but they've been in business now for several years. Their founder has been distributed parts for the lock industry for many years and he had this dream product to help locksmiths be more efficient when they're assembling those lock cylinders. So we helped him create an entire product line completely made with additive manufacturing, so 3D printed and that is also there's some laser products as well, but it didn't have to tool up anything. We're making a whole product line that didn't have any tooling at all. And we're helping locks locksmiths with their efficiency. And that's for the Lock Caddy company. And then finally we do a third service that we're very proud of and that's rework. Jon, you would be shocked to know how many products that are made overseas arrive to the US and then they discover a problem, a problem and they're not salable and they go in a landfill because it's not economical to send it back to China. There's no resource to fix it here. The factories in China, so they just landfill it. And so we discovered that we can take our knowledge about designing and making new products and figure out how to fix defective products. And we've done everything from fixing defective bolts on baby strollers, fixing outdoor furniture where things are kind of falling apart unexpectedly to, to smart outlets. These are all for actually well known brands. I will not mention the brands, but we have collectively kept almost a million pounds of products out of landfills. So that we're really proud of that. You know, it's cool to make things, but it's also cool to use the stuff we already made. So I'll, I'll stop there. But definitely really proud of some of the things that we've done here.

Jon LaClare [00:10:02]:
Yeah. It's funny, you know, we've known each other for, I don't know, a couple years or so or a little over a year at least. And I didn't realize you did that side of your business because we've been talking a lot about launching products. And we'll get into the specific one we're working on together in a minute. But rework, that is fascinating. And you know, you mentioned that the business we're in. So we're on the marketing side of what you do, as our audience knows. Right. We bring products to market, not in the development side, but in getting them in front of consumers and helping them to buy. And because of that, we work with a lot of new products and new product companies and it's constant. Like you said, it's amazing how many come here and you get your first shipment of a thousand, five thousand, ten thousand units. You've done all the testing on the prototypes that came, and the first shipment comes from China and a bunch of container loads, and they don't work. And you're right, it's thrown away. It's. It's sent into a landfill and it's just, it's tragic. It's great to know that there, there's a service out there to do it. I'd love to talk with you about the process, whether it's rework or whether it's design. It is so fascinating to me that you can work on such different technologies from a, from an engineering standpoint, you know, not be laser focused on one specific category, but you can do almost anything, right? At least a lot of different types of technologies. So how do you go about it? Is there a process you use for solving these problems? Whether it's developing something new or rework, whichever makes the most sense to talk about.

Jim Orrico [00:11:28]:
Well, absolutely. So the first thing I'll say is that there is no one size fits all process. So we have customers that are from startups to well established multi billion dollar companies. They all have, they all come with a different starting point. Some of them have a deep knowledge of their industry, some of them are starting up and know enough that they think they've got something and sometimes they already designed the first iteration on their own, but they're needing to take it to a mass producible design. Sometimes it's literally a napkin sketch. And so the main thing we do is we look at the big picture for them and really understand first of all what's their finish line and then look at, start talking about approach with them. So one thing we've learned over time is that we all have to be on the same page about approach and make sure that we all have the same expectations. The main thing, Jon, as you know, you got to meet your customer expectations. So we've got to make sure that's very clear. And so everything we do normally we really lay out very in detail the approach and then the steps to follow that. And it's tailored. So everything is tailored depending on, you know, each specific case. So that's what I would say about process.

Jon LaClare [00:13:18]:
It's interesting. It's, it's similar in some ways to, to marketing as you, as you're talking about that, you know, like you, we work with a lot of different product categories and you know, people ask us like, well, are you, are you specialists in vitamins and supplements or cleaning products or kitchen gadgets, whatever it might be. And, and at the end of the day it's about, it's a process for us, it's about selling, right. Your process is figuring out products or you know, problems, rather solving problems with products and being able to fix them. And I think with both of them, it's, it's having that end goal, knowing what you want to get to and then dialing it back to a process on the pro steps to get there. And the steps might look different, but the goal is, is decided in advance and once it, once it's known, the process can be developed. So a good way to describe that. So we've had the chance to work together on our product launch, which has been extremely fun for us and we're grateful to see that it's been a quick success already. It's called the AC Saver. Jim, can you describe for our audience what the AC Saver is and how it works?

Jim Orrico [00:14:21]:
Yes. And first let me just say that we could not have launched the AC Saver without harvest growth. So where for as much as we do and all our capabilities we're really good at making, but we don't have infrastructure on the selling side. And so harvest growth has really helped us fill in those gaps. So quick plug there for harvest growth. So the AC Saver was really born out of something that my brother has done for years. My brother has an H vac company and he has for like 25 years he's had an H Vac company and he, they have found over years that the equipment at certain times of the year, in summer, after you get to a certain extreme temperature, it was just never designed for, for the extremes. And so we were looking at how do we, this is an opportunity. We're looking. A lot of what we do has a sustainability story. We're very passionate about it. And so we said what can we do that's something meaningful that helps save energy, for example. And so we really started looking more deeply into what my brother had found through, through H Vac and looking at the power of evaporative cooling, which you see a lot of products out there, the, the little boxes that you put water in in your house and magically cool air comes out of it and things like that. That's all a principle. And even like in third world countries, they're using it, they're, they're, they're splashing water on their blinds and it, there's a cooling effect as wind blows into the windows. And so we thought, how do we apply this to save energy and increase comfort for people? Because the, the H Vac equipment is expensive and you know, we're not replacing, when you need to replace your system because it's, you know, it's really broken down. We're not a miracle cure, but we can really take the edge off when, especially in the extreme heat. And we keep getting more and more extreme heat days out there. And so the way it works is that we have, we did a lot of research and found a, a fabric mesh that wicks really well and still allows enough airflow to not affect the condenser. And so we have this wicking mesh that we wrap around a condenser like a skirt, and we distribute water with a drip line at the top, all internal, into the fabric. And, and it wicks water down. And as the condenser is sucking air in, it's the water that's wicked in evaporates. And a couple of interesting things happen. One is the air gets cooler, which everyone kind of knows about, but it also humidifies the air and both of those increase that air's capacity to absorb heat. And so what happens is that you can draw more heat, which translates into some lower head pressure for the as. As this condenser has a compressor in it and it's lowering some of the load on it. So we're seeing actually the current draw come down. And we've also measured lower temperatures coming out of the vents inside the house. So, you know, cumulatively throughout the day, there's, there's been some savings and we really think that it's going to help people just enjoy the summer a little bit more and be a little bit more comfortable.

Jon LaClare [00:18:51]:
Yeah. And we've, we've been using it at our house and it's, you know, you can notice a difference. Things that I've noticed. Again, you're the engineer that can explain why this happens. Right. But it's. The AC gets to temperature faster, in my experience. And we actually hit it on the really hot days. We're in Colorado, we don't get a lot of heat streaks, I guess, but we've been in the high 90s, which I know people in Arizona are like, you know, it's not a big deal. Right. But for us, it feels very hot and our AC usually has trouble keeping up with it when it, you know, gets these higher temperatures. But now it's. It gets to temperature faster right. In our home and we've seen our bills go down. And I think that's a common approach that, you know, if you go to the myacsaver.com website, you can actually hover over your own state, any listeners or viewers, and check out what your savings on average might be expected to be. It's going to be different in every state based on rates etc and temperatures, all that kind of stuff. So they've kind of done the math and, you know, we've seen those savings already where this is the type of product that pays for itself very quickly, but it gets you to be more comfortable. It's great for savings, but it's great for comfort in the home as well. And we certainly have seen that in our house and using it. It's, you know, it's great to put it to the test and see quick results like that. So some questions we've seen come in, so we also help with your, your marketing and we'll talk about that. But on the social media front, we get a lot of questions online about, and I'd love to address with you because I think it's great for the audience that may have some of these questions in the back of their mind already. So, so let's answer these. So one is some people say, okay, well, I'm saving money on electricity, but I'm adding a little drip of water. You know, drip system that I run water all day or when my AC is on. So electricity is down, but water's up. So they're like, it's a wash. I'm not saving any money. How would you answer that question?

Jim Orrico [00:20:41]:
Well, it's true that water costs something. And on average, it costs about a penny a gallon for tap water, which is also coming out of your spigot, you know, into your home. But we found that if you set it up so that your. The flow does not is not so high that you're dripping a lot of water at the bottom and you're, you're really just feeding the water that it needs for evaporation. The amount of water used can be dialed down to as low as 10 gallons a day. And if you think about a wash, one wash cycle taking 40 gallons for one load of laundry, it really is a fairly reasonable amount of water. You know, we're offering some additional. We developed a sail valve, for example, to really dial in the use of the water, you know, you know, all our instructions say that you want to just have the water. If you don't have the sail valve that we offer, you can get any watering timer out there to really just kind of focus the water use just on the hardest part of the day to try to strike a balance with water use.

Jon LaClare [00:22:10]:
Yeah. And for those that are listening don't know what a sail valve is, for example, you can see it on the website. And all this is very easy to install. So. So unlike Jim, I'm not an engineer, I'm not a DIY expert, but it's very easy to install the AC saver and the sail valve. I mean literally seconds. It's super simple. Attach it to your hose on the outside of your house and it is, as you said, 10 cents a day. It could be two to $3 a month, depending on how many days you run it, et cetera, and cost of water and your savings. And electricity can run 20 to $40, sometimes more, depending on the size of your home and the state you live in, the electricity costs, etceter, it's a much higher savings on cost of electricity than it is on the cost of the water. And you add to that, as we talked about, the comfort on top of that so save money and get more comfortable. It really does work that well in my experience as well. Another question we commonly get is the mineral buildup. So this is a problem with some other sort of competitive products like misters. Right. So there are some products that mist directly onto your condenser, and they can cause some mistakes. Mineral buildup. So we get the question, well, does this do the same? So how would you answer that question?

Jim Orrico [00:23:22]:
So, you know, the misters. So there aren't that many products out there that you can add to, you know, onto your condenser to try to help with energy costs, you know, with cooling comfort. And the misters, they came out first, and so that's what people are familiar with. But they found that there's problems that happen over time with those where the groundwater has a lot of minerals in it, minerals that rainwater doesn't have. And so over time, those misters, there's been complaints on the Internet about the minerals building up on the coils, and they could even corrode the coils. And really, that's part of what gave birth to the AC saver, actually, because what we wanted to do is say, well, how can we do the same benefit and still have a big evaporative cooling surface, but not get water on the coil? So that's why we have this. This wicking mesh skirt that goes on the outside, so the minerals stay on the outside on the mesh, and they're kind of on the outer shell of the. Of the. The outer protective shell. And we're not getting water on the coils. So that's how we address that. But we can understand how that would be the first thing people think of, because that was the first kind of product out of the market. But we definitely have overcome that.

Jon LaClare [00:24:56]:
And it's. Let me put it in layman's terms, so make sure I'm correct on this. So a Mr. Sprays water directly onto the coils or under the condenser. This is a saver. It's basically water passing through the mesh. So, I'm sorry, air. Air passing through waters on there. And it basically cools the air, but it's really air going into the condenser. Cooler air as opposed to water. Correct?

Jim Orrico [00:25:17]:
Correct. Yeah. So that's. The water stays on the outer protective shell of the condenser. It's not getting to the coils, but you're still getting all the benefit because the air has already now passed through the water on the outside. And so you get the benefit of the cooler, humidified air.

Jon LaClare [00:25:42]:
Another Question we get a common. I think you kind of answered this already previously, but is that it, does this slow the air going into the condenser? Because it's a mesh, and if you look at it online again, myacsaver.com, you'll see it kind of wraps around and it's. It's pretty big. So on a quick visual, does it block air? You know that that is a question that comes to people's mind. We've kind of answered it already, but if you wouldn't mind just addressing that as well.

Jim Orrico [00:26:05]:
Yeah, absolutely. So we did testing on this because, yeah, the last thing we want to do is actually negatively affect a condenser. So we did testing. Actually, the test report is downloadable from the website. But we found that the effect on the condenser airflow, even if it's the smallest condensers, where the AC saver is really covering 100% of the air intake, is only three and a half percent or less. And so we, with that three and a half percent, we actually saw the strain on the actual current draw on the condenser going lower. So the current job going lower is a sign that actually the condenser is working less and. And the airflow. And again, three and a half was like the highest we measured. So it's three and a half or less percent. So we feel that we've not seen any signs that that has caused anything. And it also has the benefit of protecting debris from entering into the coils as well. So people might not know, but right now your condenser might have debris in the coils that just cottonwoods, bits of leaves, things that float in the air. And you actually could have a 30% air restriction in your condenser right now. That's why we definitely recommend cleaning your coils, either professionally have them professionally cleaned, or there's. There's. On YouTube, there's videos on how to clean coils yourself and then put on an AC saver to help protect it and to keep it clean.

Jon LaClare [00:28:03]:
That's great advice. Last question. I want to share from a consumer perspective. So the question that we hear from them is humidity. So you mentioned part of how this works is it increases the humidity. And there's a benefit to that. But what about if you're in a state. And that's great in Arizona, right, where it's hot but dry. But think Alabama, Texas, where it's hot and also the air is already humid. So does this make my home even more humid, for example, is a question.

Jim Orrico [00:28:27]:
We sometimes get so all this is happening outside your home. So the humidity that we're talking about, that is just for the air going through your condenser and for those that have already humidified air, you're still getting an evaporative cooling effect. But the fact is that humid air can absorb more heat and so the AC saver will add some additional humidity. But this is all in the trying to get as much heat as that air is flowing through the fins of the condenser coils, through the coils. You just want it to pick up as much heat as possible in the brief amount of time. It's like zipping through those coils.

Jon LaClare [00:29:23]:
Got it. So it's all on the outside of the house. It doesn't change the environment inside the home. So if you think back now, so now I believe this is the first product or major launch that you've done on your own, is that correct?

Jim Orrico [00:29:37]:
Yes. So we've always made other companies products and we still, that's our primary business and our focus. But we did want to launch this product because we felt it was important and it was an opportunity to have a made in the USA product out there. But yes, our focus is making other companies products but we wanted to get this one in the market cause we felt it was so important.

Jon LaClare [00:30:09]:
Yeah, absolutely. And we've been lucky enough to be with you on the marketing side of this journey and it's been a lot of fun and as I mentioned, it's been successful. Really right out the gates. It's great to see in part because it's such a great product. Now we've got, you know, my answer is hey, the marketing is good too. Right. So we created some videos where these are being marketed on Facebook and Instagram and we've got some, you know, testimonial, user generated content style videos. That is real, genuine content, you know, as, as viewers watch it and it's all working and doing well. But it comes back to okay, the marketing can be great, but if you don't have a good product to back it up, it's not going to sell or you're going to get a lot of turns. Right. So the biggest part is the product has to work and has to have demand behind it as well. How did you know early on in this process that this was going to sell well? How did you get the confidence up to be able to take this jump and really market your own product?

Jim Orrico [00:31:06]:
Well, I would say a couple of things. The first is that harvest growth helped us with some market research. So we did Markets research with the help of harvest growth last year. And we kind of found that there was definitely an interest. And then, you know, we were kind of interviewing our friends and neighbors as well to try to get an understanding of pain points in summertime. And that gave us the confidence to really go for it. And that's, that's how we initially kicked it off.

Jon LaClare [00:31:54]:
I like that answer in part because obviously we are big believers in market research and again, lucky enough to work with you on this. But the most important takeaway, I think, is to get outside yourself. Right. So, you know, we do that through a market research process. That's part of it. But I love that you also shared it with friends, families, neighbors, people that don't have an interest necessarily. They like you. Right. But they're not that they don't own the company. They don't, they don't have the, you know, this vision that it has to be a success. Right. They're going to give you an honest answer, typically if you talk to the right people and the way that you frame these questions. So get out of yourself to ask these questions early on, you know, even before you do market research on is there something here or is it just me that gets excited by this? And you understand the size of your audience, so that's good. Is there anything that you have learned in this process? So now that you've gone through everything, right, obviously the development side, you've done a thousand times, right, Developing the product, getting into manufacturing, all that kind of stuff for other people. This is your first now marketing venture. You've done on your own. Anything in this process that you've learned that you think will be helpful to take back to your clients. On the development side.

Jim Orrico [00:32:58]:
A couple of things. One is when you're developing something, you always want to get it out in the real world as early as possible and not wait too long. We've seen people that have waited years where they kept refining it, kept spending a lot of money on patent attorneys and things like that, and not really learning from the market. Nobody wants to be told the baby's ugly, their baby is ugly. But it really, you really owe it to yourself to figure out what's the minimum viable product and get it out there. And if it's, if the product's got legs, you're going to, you're going to make some sales. It doesn't have to be perfect and you can start learning something.

Jon LaClare [00:33:59]:
I love that. It's great advice. Any other advice you have for new inventors that might be considering Launching or developing a new product.

Jim Orrico [00:34:06]:
Well, I would say really understand the customer, understand who would actually give you some of their hard earned money for that and understand if they have the pain that you think they have. And I invite everyone that's listening to give us a chance to help solve some of their products, some of their challenges and help them grow. Like I said, we help everything from people that have already at least started their company and are getting serious about launching a product to multi billion dollar companies. Give us a chance to help you grow.

Jon LaClare [00:34:53]:
And I love that you shared your expertise and sort of, if I could say, create, fix or rework. Right. So anywhere along that journey that any listeners or viewers might need help. From an engineering standpoint, I can't speak highly enough about Jim and his background and experience. I've learned a lot about the engineering side and our discussions we've had over these past year, plus time that we've known each other. And Jim knows this stuff. Right. He's a great engineer, can solve problems that maybe you can't solve on your own. So definitely reach out with any questions you might have. Um, it's, you know, it's, it's. I talk about the difference between an engineer and a marketer. Right. So I think about marketers launching products. People ask why I don't launch more of my own. It's because I'm not an engineer. Right. I don't have the patience to figure stuff out, get problems taken care of in the upfront, which is. There's a lot to that. Right. That's a different type of mindset as opposed to marketing something that's built enough. Right. So minimum viable product, as you mentioned, and having that core expertise to solve those problems in the beginning is, is extremely valuable and a great service that Jim and his company operate and offer to other people. Jim, is there anything else that I didn't ask you that you think could be helpful for our audience?

Jim Orrico [00:36:08]:
No, I think, you know, we, we've covered a fair amount and really it's, it's just about, you know, reaching out and not being too protective of an idea and really start building a team because it takes a team with multidisciplinary team to get something really design made and out in the world selling.

Jon LaClare [00:36:38]:
Absolutely. And you've got a great team on your end for sure. For our audience, if you're listening or watching, go to dream2product.com that's T O in the middle or my AC as an air conditioner. Savor S-A-V E R.com to learn more about Jim's brand new product, relatively new at this point, as well as his business, to be able to help you with any problems you might have on the engineering front. Also, thanks for tuning into today's episode where we uncover the stories and strategies behind some of the most successful product marketers out there. If you're looking to take your own business to the next level, be sure to visit perfectlaunch.com you can grab a free copy of my book, the Perfect Launch System. It's packed with proven principles we've developed over the past 20 years, helping hundreds of businesses launch and grow successfully. Plus, you'll also get an exclusive one page summary of some of our most popular podcast interviews, real world insights you can apply right away. Head to perfect launch.com and start building your perfect launch today. Until next time, keep learning, keep launching and keep growing.