Ecommerce Website Mastery
Greg Silvano - Mojo
How do you stand out as a product marketer in a world filled with ENDLESS content surrounding products? Well, the answer is simple — use Mojo for website design! Greg Silvano is the Founder/CEO of Mojo — the #1 eCommerce platform used by television product advertisers today. 14 of the top 20 direct response television advertisers in 2019 used Mojo as their eCommerce platform. Mojo has processed nearly $1B in online sales and currently runs over 1,300 active D2C campaign websites worldwide in 14 different countries.
In this podcast, Greg shares incredible insight that you will not find ANYWHERE else. How do you perfect product marketing in a way that'll bring you the best sales? What are the ideal sales funnels for upsells? What's the difference between an amateur and a professional marketer? With average conversion rates of 7%, nearly 5% higher than the top competitors, Mojo does not mess around.
If you're an inventor, entrepreneur, marketer, or really anyone, you'll want to give this podcast a listen. Grab your pencils, because you'll want to take some notes.
In today’s episode of the Harvest Growth Podcast, we’ll cover:
Do you have a product that you’d like to launch or grow? Do you want help from a partner that has successfully launched hundreds of products that now total over $2 billion in revenues? Visit HarvestGrowth.com to set up a free consultation. Check out InfomercialMarketer.com for educational content on all things surrounding direct-response marketing.
Jon: Every consumer product business needs a website, and in the next 30 minutes, you're going to learn exactly how to make your websites perform better and be much more profitable. We're excited to have, on the show with us today, Greg Silvano, who's the founder and CEO of Mojo, and they're a website developer extraordinaire in my industry, especially the direct response TV industry, dealing with literally thousands of inventors over the course of many years, big companies and small companies. Really nobody knows the space of direct response websites or really high-performing websites better than my good friend, Greg. I'm really excited, Greg, to have you on the show today. Thanks so much for joining us.
Greg: Thank you, Jon. Excited to be here.
Jon: Let's talk about your background a little bit. I don't even know offhand. I know we've worked together for a very long time, but when did you start? How long has Mojo been around?
Jon: I owned a software consulting company. We had 60 developers and just doing custom database-driven enterprise-level business apps. I stumbled into the direct response industry. Actually, I met somebody at a bar and they were big in this industry and we started talking about websites and just how things worked, and that was in 2011. It started as a side project for the consulting company, just something we just built just to see if it got any traction. Then we spun it off as a separate company in 2013, and I've been working on it full-time since then.
Greg: Wow. I think we probably go back to about that far.
Jon: It goes back [crosstalk] definitely. Definitely. We were probably 2013 or 2014. Mojo went through a couple of different revisions. That first version that we created in 2011, 2012, it wasn't right. It was what that person I met thought they needed, but then, in hindsight, you realize it's not really what they needed. That version died off pretty quick. We created a second version, and then in 2013, we put it out there. We found that, that second version, it worked great for the company we were working with, but once we put it out there to everybody else, the problems that that first company had, weren't really the same problems everybody else had, so we weren't really solving the industry's problems. We were just solving that one company's problems.
We realized that pretty quickly in 2013, we shelved that version, created the third version of Mojo which launched in 2014. That's the one that, by and large, will be recognizable to people today. Obviously, it's had seven years of modifications and additions to but, by and large, you look at it, see it's the same thing. 2014 is really when it exploded. People really started to come on and people would recognize the name. At least in this industry, they'd recognize the name Mojo.
Jon: Really, since then, it's amazing. I get websites sent to me all the time from new clients saying, "Hey, this is what I want my site to look like." I'm like, "Oh, as coincidence would have it, that's a Mojoo site." They may not know that. The branding's not always present there, but they're great-looking sites, but I think more important really they're great [crosstalk] performing sites as well. I do encourage, but we'll talk about it at the end as well, but go check out Got Mojo, gotmojo.com. You can see a lot of Greg's work after we get through this. I'll have that in the show notes as well, but just you can see some of these examples.
Again, that's the visual side, but then there's the performance side. We get questions a lot from product marketers, inventors, who-- A very normal platform in this industry is Shopify, right? A lot of people start off with Shopify's and they don't realize, if they're doing it themselves, how much time and effort it takes to get it even off the ground, let alone to look good. One of the things I love about Mojo is that it's, I guess you'd call it WYSIWYG development, where it's just really easy, like even I could do it. I'm not a website developer to use a template and turn it into a really cool-looking website. It's really, other than writing up the content, that it takes.
Beyond the ease of use with Mojo, which it's really easy to make a site. I know you guys develop sites for a lot of our clients as well, where you do it from scratch, or the clients can do it themselves. What are some of the things that you've found over the years that make your sites perform well? What makes Mojo sites unique?
Greg: It's a combination of a few things. The parallel Shopify makes sense in the sense that Mojo is a hosted e-commerce platform, just like Shopify is. Technically, you could do a lot of what we do in Shopify. It would require a lot of apps that you need to install and configure, and they'd be separate from Shopify. The big difference is that Shopify is a traditional e-commerce platform. You have Shopify, WordPress, plus WooCommerce, or Big Commerce, Wix, Squarespace a lot of those. They're geared towards traditional e-commerce, which is categories of things. It's men's and women's and children's and shirts and shoes and socks and belts and things like that. You browse through the store and you look to see things and you add it to your cart. Then when you're done, you click on, "I want to check out and you go through a multi-step checkout process."
The reality is, if you have a product, so let's say you have a kitchen product, or you have a kitchen appliance or something like that, and you go to a site like walmart.com or Target or Bed Bath & Beyond, or even Amazon. If you look at that same product across all the sites and you removed the logo from the site, you would not be able to tell Walmart from Target, from Bed Bath & Beyond, or Best Buyer any of the other ones, because they're all very templated in that fashion. They're very, "Here's a nice looking homepage. Here's a category page of kitchenware, and then here's a product details page," and that product details page almost universally looks the same.
You have a thumbnail on the side with maybe other thumbnails underneath. You have a price, maybe the ratings or something like that, and then underneath you have a product description, and it's purely dynamic driven. It's driven by a database. Somebody, ahead of time, puts in that content and then the site renders on the fly. A Mojo site is very different in the sense that it's more like a magazine article-- I'm sorry, magazine advertisement than it is a driven templated type of website. There's more effort that goes into the creative of the site, and it's a micro-site or just a landing page. You're just looking at that one product.
A Mojo website is as much about even the offer as it is about the product. This is what you're getting. You see what you get. It is you buy two get one free. It is the offer. Not necessarily just a price, it's an offer. It is reviews and usage shots and there's more effort that goes into that and that's the entire site. Then when you click on Buy Now, Order Now, you might get an offer selection page where it's good, better, best, gold, platinum, silver. You choose your different configuration or options, and then it's a one-page checkout. You put in your shipping information, you put in your credit card information or PayPal, or Affirm, whatever the financing app if you're using it. You click Order Now, you bought the product. That's that idea where it's about a product, you buy the product, and then normally we would have one-click upsells, downsells to help improve the average order.
Fundamentally, it's a much more streamlined process. It's definitely a much more focused process that impacts the conversion rate more than anything else. The conversion rate of that type of site is 4, 5, 6, 10 times higher than an average Shopify conversion rate. Then Mojo itself, it's really more about landing pages and microsites. Mojo specifically, we're built as an AB testing engine from the ground up. You can AB test. Not only do we support every type of offer that's ever happened in a direct response campaign in the past 10 years. It's one day, three-day, five-day trial, offer BOGO, buy one, get one, continuity, subscription, all that stuff, but you can AB test those.
You could say, "Maybe this offer works better if, on the landing page, we don't talk about continuity, because people don't know the campaign yet. They don't know the product yet. They don't trust it yet, so we're not going to hit them with, 'Do you want to subscribe to this thing?'" Maybe on the landing page, it's just that one offer of, "Buy one bottle," and then after the transaction, after you bought the product, you have the upsell option to, "Would you like to try continuity? Maybe we can give you a discount." If you say, no, maybe there's a down-sell to that. "We'll give you free shipping the first two months for free." Now you can test those things. Instead of just hitting the customer with everything you've got, you can test out all these different options. Ultimately, that's where the benefit comes from, to be able to just effortlessly, easily do these kinds of things as a marketer, which is what a marketer wants to do.
Jon: Yes. Some of those things you talk, you make it sound so easy, and really with a Mojo platform, it is. With other platforms, it's not. AB testing, for example, yes, you can do that with a lot of platforms, but it's cumbersome. If you're not a coder to get in the backend or hire some developer to work on it, it can be almost impossible. You know what you're supposed to do. You test. Just for those that may not know what testing or AB testing is, just offhand, it's you test two price points, let's say. Both sites can be live at the same time, half the traffic goes to one half, goes to another and Mojo just makes that really easy to do. So easy.
Greg: It's the ease that matters. I'll tell you, there are testing options out there that are more flexible than Mojo. They have more options than Mojo may have. They are not easier to use. We focus on the things that we think a business user who's really should be the person making the decisions, the marketer. That business user can go in and do the test. The analogy I give people, and this is funny because this is an analogy I gave back in 2011, 2012. Do you have a smartphone? You think back 2012, 2011 where people were just really, really taken off with iPhones, and I'd hold up the iPhone and say, "Do you have an iPhone?" "Yes." "Do you check your email on it?" "Yes." "Why?"
Everybody gave the answer, "Well, I want to stay in touch. I want to know what's happening. I want to stay in the loop and I need that information. It's important to me." The answer is no. That's not why you check your email all the time.
If it took two minutes to check your email on your phone, would you check it all the time? No, of course not. You check it all the time because it's easy. They make it effortless to do it. That's why you do it all the time. To us, the idea is that you should be testing all the time. You never stop testing. When the numbers aren't working and you need them to work, you test. When they are working, you still need to test because-- I'll give you a story on this in a second, because things change constantly. The competitive landscape changes.
Test your old tests. Maybe something that didn't resonate with people a year ago resonate now because somebody else was pushing another product, but now, all of a sudden, they get it. Maybe they didn't get it when you first tested. Political landscape, the social landscape changes. Things change all the time, so test your old tests again. The story I just alluded to a second ago, one of our clients in 2020, last year, a fitness product, things going through the roof clearly, you had COVID and people couldn't go to gyms so they were buying at-home fitness equipment.
This client had a manufacturing issue, and they had to increase the price of their product by $5 to compensate for that. He was dreading it. He's like, "You know what? The sales are going great. I can't believe we have to increase the price of the product. It's going to hit our conversion rate." They're very metrics-driven. He increased the price of the product. The product was between $100 and $150, so it was a $5 increase and no impact on the conversion rate whatsoever. Zero. They increased at $5, not one iota of a percentage difference on the conversion rate. He said, "Had I tested that earlier and just increased the price of our product by $5, we would have made an additional $300,000 in 2020."
That test, with their volume because when you do an AB test, you want about 100 orders per variant. If you're running a two-way split, you want Version A to have 100 orders and Version B to have 100 orders. With the volume of orders that they were doing, that test would have been started and running in production in about 60 seconds. It takes nothing to do the test. With the volume of orders they had, they would have been completely through the test in about an hour, maybe two hours.
Jon: No. I love how you talk about the easiness of it. We really always should be testing. I talk to our clients where I always call a test like, even when we go on national TV. It's a test, of course, the first week. but even a year in the future. I get the question back like, "Are we actually going to be on air? Are we getting real orders?" Like, "Yes, absolutely," but we're constantly testing to learn what's going to work best. The easier you can make that test, the better.
I want to talk a little bit about upsells because, for our audience's sake, there's really simply three different things that are going to drive the success of any campaign, and especially direct to consumer space. It's traffic, generating the traffic. That's not Mojo's responsibility. That's not the website's responsibility. That comes from TV or from a Facebook campaign or whatever. It's where the traffic arrives. Once we get there, now, it's two things that the website has to do, and Mojo is so good at. It's really about conversion, you talked about that, as well as your average order value or increasing that.
I'd like to take those apart a little bit further. Let's go first to upsells just because I love the way that you do it in such a unique way. You talked about one-click upsells. I'm going to dive a little further onto that. For our audience, again, if we've got a certain number of purchases coming through, if we can simply raise the average order value, our profits go up because your revenues go up with the same number of customers.
Greg: [unintelligible 00:13:35].
Greg: You've spent $1,000 to drive people to the site. If you only make $1 per order and let's say you had a 100% conversion rate, that means $1,000, you got 100 people coming to the site and they all bought something, you only made $100 in revenue, not profits only. Getting that average order up is a critical part of the campaign. I'm going to say what you just said in a different angle. What most people don't understand is that, build it and they don't come. You can build a website and have the greatest product in the world. The secret is, the reality is, you're going to pay for 100% of the visitors to your site for a long, long, long time.
Peloton, they are paying for every visitor that comes to the site. They're doing TV ads, they're social ads, they're doing everything they can to drive people to the site. The days of, "Oh, I'm going to come up with this great kitchen idea, and I'm going to show up on Google," it is never going to happen. It's just not going to happen. Even if you own the brand, people are searching for your brand, if you're in retail, you have to knock off Amazon, Walmart, Bed Bath & Beyond, Target, eBay, every other site out there that's selling your product. Just being able to say that, 'People will find us," does not happen. It's a thing that people need to really remember when it comes to these campaigns.
Now, if you're paying money to drive somebody to the site, you have to make money on that traffic. You drive them to the site, let's say you have a $19 product, let's say you have a $20 product, let's say you have a $29.99 product. Well, they get to the site, most people would think I would like them to buy my $29.99 product so I can afford certain media that drives people to the site, and they're making $29.99 per sale. That's the price. That's not the offer.
Offer is king. Offer is your price with some marketing pizzazz. An offer is, buy two, get one free. Let's say you do that, in case you have this thing and the math works out for you so you can ship them efficiently and cost-effective. Maybe it's not so big and so heavy that you can really put two in there and get one free and the math works out. All of a sudden, now, instead of a $29.99 average order, if you can get 20% of those people to pick, buy two, get one free, now it's $60 for those customers. Now your average orders goes from $30 to maybe $40. It's a big difference.
Then let's say 20% of those people picked it on the landing page, the buy one, get one free, now you have an upsell afterwards for people who did not pick it saying, "You know what? Buy one, get one free, and we'll give you free shipping too." There's no risk here because it's a post-transaction upsell. They've already bought the product, so you're not going to offend them by giving them a better offer and you can give a discount that maybe they wouldn't have seen on the homepage.
By being able to figure out ways to eke up that average order by offering things, it could be an entirely separate product. Maybe it's a kitchen set, it's kitchen pans and cooking things and oven mitts. Buy oven mitts for $10, or whatever it is. If you can get that average order up, you already paid for that person to get to the site. Anything that you can add to that order and get it up a little bit more, it improves the overall finances of the campaign. That's how all these things work. All those infomercial campaigns, everything you see on TV, they can't afford TV commercials if they're only making $19.99 for the product. It's impossible. You just can't afford that type of media. You have to have ways to get that average order up.
Jon: The interesting thing with the Mojo site platform that is so different from, I would say, traditional e-commerce sites or platforms like Shopify is the way the upsells work. You can explain this better than I, but in short, what I'd like to talk about is how you get them in the system, into the funnel, they've started the purchase process, they add it to the cart, the main product, we add their billing information, everything's done, then we present upsells. If they leave anytime throughout, you don't lose the sale. That's what's so different with Shopify.
Greg: [crosstalk], yes.
Jon: You lose them on the back end. I'd love to hear you talking about that and how that works so well.
Greg: It makes a big difference. What'll end up happening is once you buy the product, so they have purchased it, they've decided what they want, the credit card, it has been authorized, you're good. You bought the product. At that point, they could walk away from the computer. They're done. Or phone, more often than not now. What a post-transaction upsell, down-sell is, it's a series of offers that you click, "Yes, I want it", or "No, I don't." They can be logic-driven. For example, if you have a good-better-best cart selection where they can buy, let's say it's a fitness equipment. There's a basic and a deluxe, and the deluxe includes the leg extensions and more weights and things like that.
Let's say you buy basic. You buy basic, and you click "Complete my order," and you've bought it, the first upsell could be, "Are you sure you don't want deluxe?" It could be the same price. That's it. It doesn't have to be particularly creative, but it has to be put in front of a customer in order for them to choose. It'll say, "Are you sure you don't want deluxe?" If they say no, you could say, "Would you like deluxe if we gave you 20%? off?" If they say no to that, you could say, "Would you like the leg extension? Just the leg extension, not everything that was in deluxe. Do you want the leg extension?" "Yes, I want that." "Great. Do you want the additional free weight, the bands, or whatever it is?"
Obviously, you don't want a dozen of these things in your checkout flow. You don't want to have somebody with yes, no, no, no, no, and just keep pestering them. You want enough where if people simply say yes to the things that make sense to them, that they want, then you're giving them value, you're often giving them a discount to things and you get the average order up. It works [crosstalk]. You'd be surprised how many people choose post-transaction upsells. That's the thing. People always worry,
"Oh, I don't want to offend my customers." Give them an option. That's all it is. You're not calling them on the phone during dinner time. You're simply giving them a yes, no option during a checkout flow. Nothing wrong with that.
Jon: If you can increase your average order value by even 10%, we see this double or triple or more sometimes, but even 10%, why not do this? It's all to the bottom line.
Greg: It is an absolute game-changer. You talk about, if you talk to companies and you're like, "What if we could increase your average order or your sale or anything by 10%?" It's a big number. That $5 for the customer of the Mojo client I talked about earlier. $5, that's it? It was less than 5% of their product price and $300,000 in additional sales. It makes a big difference. In that little difference-- I'll give another long story. Can I do a long story?
Greg: It's about testing. It's actually a client from last year again. They launched a product and it had a great average order. Whatever the average order was, it worked for the campaign. They were great, but the conversion rate was not where they needed it to be. They just didn't have enough people converting, but once they did, the average order made sense for the campaign. It was a major company. What they did is they ran a test. They ran a series of 18 tests. Every single test was a change to the offer and that's it. The landing page did not change unless the imagery was about the offer. Every single test of the 18 tests was nothing else than changing the price of the product and the upsell flow.
Here's what they did. The price of the product was where they needed to be because the average order looked really good. Conversion rate, not where they needed to be. They just cut the price of the product. Here we go for whatever it was. I don't want to give too many actual details because I don't want anybody to figure out which product it was. They cut the price of the product, conversion rate, boom, went right up because it's a great value at this point. Conversion rate went right up, but of course, the average order went way down proportionally. It was up 50% for the conversion rate and then down 50% for the average order. That was I think test two.
Test three through 18 was nothing but the up-sell down-sell flow. That was it. Landing page did not change once, so lot of people were buying because the conversion rate now worked. What they did is they introduced deluxe upsells. They introduced a lot more than just deluxe, but the one they focused on was deluxe. This was not like a minor deluxe upgrade. This isn't like, "Here's a $50 product, and here's a $70 deluxe." It was like, "Here's a $50 product, and here's a $200 deluxe." It was a massive deluxe thing related to the product, but it was a big, huge upgrade. What they ended up doing was, "Would you like the deluxe?" Not enough people were taking that to impact the average order, so they then had a down-sell.
They simply said, "Are you sure you don't want the deluxe?" It's just a simple, same price, that didn't work. That was, "Do you want the deluxe?" and there was a down-sell that said, "Do you want a discount on the deluxe?" That still didn't work. The one that ended up working was, "Do you want the deluxe?" "No." The down-sell was, "Are you sure you don't want the deluxe at the same price, but we'll give you the original thing you bought from the landing page for free?" That was the offer. Boom, campaign took off.
Greg: It takes some creativity. They're selling the same stuff. You don't need everybody to get the upsell. You need enough so that the math of the campaign, the actual revenue coming in-- If you get a hundred people ordering it and one of them spends a million dollars, whole campaign changes because now you got a million dollars that you could spend on media, and knowing that 1% is going to spend a million dollars. That's how this works. You just need the average order to be at a certain amount so that your cost per order, how much you're spending for people to come to the site, to get the numbers to work.
Jon: I was going to go down this question line around conversion rates, but I think you just answered the question really. Conversions mainly come back. There's a few standard things that everybody should do on websites to make them work, but most things are different for every campaign. It really comes back to testing, finding a way to be able to test different options.
Greg: You need to leave time and budget for testing. That's another thing that people don't think of. They think that, "Build it and they will come." Not the case. Actually, I'll dispel a few myths here. Build it and they will not come, we talked about that. You're going to go viral, no, you're not. It is absolutely 100% you are not going to go viral and here's the worst part, even if you do go viral, you're not going to sell any product. We've had two viral hits on Mojo, like big viral hits. One was on the Ellen show four days in a row and they gave it away on the fourth day, they sold a thousand units. That was it.
Greg: Thousand units. Build it and they will come. No, you're not going to go viral, you are going to spend money to drive traffic, and you need to allocate budget and time for that. Say it another way. There's a difference between the professional marketers and amateurs. I've distilled it down to this. I've never said this out loud until this, so hopefully, this is valuable. Amateurs spend all their time and effort launching the site, make sure the font is perfect, and the pixels here perfect, and the image is wonderful. They make sure that this is something they are so proud to show their family and friends that, "Voila, I have created this amazing site." They launch it and they check the box. "We have launched our website." That's an amateur.
Professionals launch a site in about six hours. Any site, they will launch it, get it out there and start driving traffic to it, and then the work begins. They put no effort into creating the site or as little as possible, and then all the effort into driving traffic and testing ideas. That's the difference. Amateurs think, "My site is launched, let fate decide what happens to it." The professionals do not act that way.
Jon: Yes, that's a great point. I think that comes down to even frankly, product development, or if you're doing a marketing video campaign. It's not about getting it perfect out the gates. It's always about testing. Even your first prototype, just start, and then you're going to learn so much.
Greg: Don't be afraid. Just get it out there. [crosstalk] We're not printing CDs that go into a cereal box and you're stuck with it. You printed a million of these things and they're going out in the mail. This is a website, you can change it in 15 seconds. We have clients all the time. They'll put it out there and something worked and they started it, it didn't work, they take it offline, gone. Put more work into it, relaunch it again.
Jon: Greg, I want to ask one more question. I'll just basically ask if there's anything I didn't ask you'd like to share with our audience that you think it'd be helpful. Before I do that, though, just as you think about that for a second, I want to stress to our audience how lucky you are, frankly, to hear from Greg. I didn't realize this but as we prepped for this interview, I learned that this is his first podcast interview. You wouldn't know it for listening.
I knew it was going to be a great interview because Greg and I talk all the time. I know he's always teaching us, teaching our clients. He's so knowledgeable, but also just a great teacher at this. I know you gained a lot from this experience for sure, but I do encourage everyone please go visit gotmojo.com. If nothing else, check out their templates and learn from the thousands of successful, very successful campaigns that they've really been behind for many years.
See some of the templates, see what's been done in the past, so at a minimum, you'll get some learnings. If it's the right platform for you, for your business to try out fantastic. You can reach out to them directly or come through us at Harvest Growth either way. Greg, is there anything I didn't ask that you think could be helpful for our audience?
Greg: Yes. I have that epiphany of the difference between amateurs and professionals. I've never spoken out loud. There's one other that, if I get around to doing a blog and writing a book, this will be a key part of it. I think it's super important because it has nothing to do with websites. It's what I call the two Ms that are going to make or break you when you're doing these types of campaigns.
People think, "Oh, it's money and Mojo," and it's not. Number one is media. Media is king. Being able to identify an audience and get people driven to the site-- I tell people all the time, "Build your website--" and this is coming from the website guy. "Build a website as cheap as you possibly can and save your money for media. That is where things will take off or they won't." Media is king, that's the first M.
The second is, it's funny. Whether you are a small business owner, you are an entrepreneur, an inventor, whatever you want to call yourself, if you're going down this path, congratulations, you are now a marketer. That is the second M. If you are to buy a book, buy a marketing book. If you are to learn anything, it is to learn how to be a marketer. Don't learn the HTML and the technology, any of that kind of stuff manufacturing. Don't care. You are a marketer. If you look at the best people in this industry and the best companies in this industry, they probably have the word marketer in their name. They are marketers.
It's a teachable thing. You can learn it but you have to seek out that information. How do you pitch something? How do you tell a story about a product? How do you talk about the unique selling point? How do you differentiate yourself from the crowd? That's what it's about because it's crowded out there. If you get by an ad, you have a few seconds of their attention. If you don't understand marketing, they're never going to end up on that website, to begin with.
Jon: That's great advice. I think a great segue also, I'll encourage our audience to go visit our website out, which is infomercialmarketer.com. It is in our name.
Greg: There you go. It's funny. [crosstalk] think of that too. [chuckles]
Jon: That's not our corporate site, but that's a site where we gave a lot of free content, much like you've just learned from Greg on how to market your product on TV, online, and the website is such an important part of that. I definitely encourage our listeners and our viewers, it's part of our audience to go check out gotmojo.com. It's in our show notes as well, and learn more about Greg's company, and what they might be able to do to help your business as well.
Also, be sure to check out harvesthrowthpodcast.com to see other episodes of this podcast we've recorded. If you liked this episode, you want to learn more about how you can profitably grow your consumer product business, please subscribe to our show. Be sure to leave us a review at iTunes or Google Play.