Driving Business Growth Through Data Analysis and Product Iteration - CheckPoint Health

Are you trying to harness the power of analytics in growing your business? Then, you would love today's episode. Our guest, Josh Chandler, President of Checkpoint Health, demystifies how using a data-driven strategy in a lean model - consistently running small-scale experiments to discover the best business solutions - can help you scale and outcompete in any market.

Josh will dive into the core of successful business growth, discussing the impact of customer service and retention on profitability. He'll share his top book recommendations for marketers and product developers, such as "Lean Startup," while illustrating the power of even the smallest product improvements.

Tune in as Josh dives into the power of data analytics and how it can improve sales performance, profitability, and your competitive advantage.

In today’s episode of the Harvest Growth Podcast, we’ll cover:

• Why Founders should know their Customer Lifetime Value (CLV) and customer acquisition costs.
• Identifying the differences between customers at different stages of your sales funnel.
• Why you should run experiments to find growth opportunities and improve your business performance.
• How small product improvements can result in a competitive market advantage.
• And so much more!
  
  

Visit www.trycheckpoint.com now to learn more about how their products help senior citizens detect minor health issues before they become major concerns.

To be a guest on our next podcast, contact us today!

Do you have a brand that you’d like to launch or grow? Do you want help from a partner that has successfully launched hundreds of brands totaling over $2 billion in revenues? Visit HarvestGrowth.com and set up a free consultation with us today!

Transcript

Jon LaClare [00:00:00]:
Today's guest shares a groundbreaking new healthcare service that changes preventative medicine as we know it. But at the end of the interview, he also does a better job at explaining how to grow your business profitably than I have possibly ever heard. This is an interview you'll rewind and listen to a couple of times to glean all of the value you can. So I encourage you to stick around and listen to the entire discussion.

Announcer [00:00:23]:
Are you looking for new ways to make your sales grow? You've tried other podcasts, but they don't seem to know harvest the growth potential of your product or service as we share stories and strategies that'll make your competitors nervous. Now here's the host of the Harvest Growth podcast, Jon LaClare.

Jon LaClare [00:00:43]:
Welcome back to the show. Today I'm really excited to be visiting with Josh Chandler. He is a good friend and client of ours and we're working on a really marketing campaign for an exciting business that I want to share with you today and discuss. And there's some great learnings from both the new business that Josh is helping to get off the ground and grow, but also their existing business that's been around for a long time and been very successful. You'll get some great advice and learnings from this, but also hear about some really great new products and services that are out there. So Josh, first of all, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us today.

Josh Chandler [00:01:16]:
Awesome. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me, Jim.

Jon LaClare [00:01:20]:
So Josh is the president of Checkpoint Health and we're going to talk about that particular product. But also there's a legacy business that he's been helping to run for many years that's a PERS device. Now you may not know what that is by when I say that acronym, A-P-E-R-S but I'll let Josh describe it and quickly you'll understand. I'm sure everyone who is listening is very familiar with the product. They just may not call it a PERS. But can you talk about what is PERSs and how does it work?

Josh Chandler [00:01:47]:
Yeah. So PERS is sort of an industry term. Most people know it as a medical alert or something like that. It's a pretty common name for it. We got into the business originally. This is the business of helping people when there's an emergency. Everybody, probably that, you know, unless they're too young, has some kind of a story about an elderly relative or someone who's infirm or frail, falling or having a health issue and being unable to get help. Even in this age of cell phones, it's tricky if you fall and you're unconscious or if you fall in a place where you're not close to your phone.

Josh Chandler [00:02:35]:
Even those of us who feel like we're glued to our phones are actually not glued to our phones as often as we think. And this product basically is the standard product a lot of us have heard about, where if you do have a medical emergency, you can push a button and you're connected with a 24/7 call center that has trained operators and know what to do to help you. So when we say purrs, that's what we mean. And our legacy business, we got into that business in 2009. So how many years is that? Is that 15 years now, John? I think that's. Holy cow. That's 15 years. We got into it to create the first ever gps and cellular version of that product.

Josh Chandler [00:03:16]:
So we are a hardware creator. We have lots and lots of software that's also involved in signaling and tracking customers and making sure that that product is really robust. So we have a number of software developers on staff in that business. And, yeah, we did the math, and we figured that we have actually sent over 10 million emergency alerts in our 15 years of history. So it's been a great ride. And a lot of people, I'm really proud of the good that we've done. For a lot of people, that's a.

Jon LaClare [00:03:56]:
Lot of lives helped and saved with all those emergency notifications over these many years. And I want to talk about, when we get towards the end of this interview, we'll talk about the marketing side of that. I know you use a lot of leads. You buy leads, you acquire leads and turn them into revenues. And I think it's going to be really interesting for our audience because it's a space that a lot of us could use to grow no matter what business we're in. And you've been very successful there. But before we do that, I want to jump in and talk about the newer business, the extension of this PERS technology, which is remote patient monitoring. As a business, it's called checkpoint health.

Jon LaClare [00:04:30]:
Can you describe for us, first of all, how does that all work? What is remote patient monitoring, and how does it work through your PERS technology?

Josh Chandler [00:04:38]:
Yeah. So remote physiological or patient monitoring is a program that was developed, originally put together by the Department of Veterans affairs, and they did a massive study and showed that their health care costs could be drastically reduced just by people taking measurements in the home of certain vital signs that were relevant to whatever disease condition they had. And then by having a coach someone who could talk to them about those measurements and talk them through what to do next and could help them sort of understand what it was that they were seeing. And that gave them a sense of urgency, it gave them a sense of ownership of their own health care and really changed the game. I think in the retrospective study that they did to sort of assess how well that worked, they found, I want to say it was a 30% cost differential between the two groups. It might have been more like 40% cost differential between the groups who had this coach and were taking their measurements all the time and the groups who didn't. Now, you can imagine Medicare, which does health care for the elderly in this country, latched onto this study and thought, oh, this is amazing, we need to get this going. And so they have created this sort of category in connection with healthcare providers of remote patient monitoring, which is essentially, you take one or more measurements of one or more physiological conditions, you got to do it a certain number of times in every 30 day cycle.

Josh Chandler [00:06:25]:
And then you can also receive health coaching and health consultations, all under the supervision of a physician and all based on a prescription from a physician. So this is like the next evolution of what we've already been doing for a lot of years, caring for the elderly. One of the things, I'll be frank with you, John, that have really attracted us to this category, know, I can be there for someone in our legacy business when they need help, when they're having an emergency, and that's really great and it makes you feel good. But on the other hand, what you're not able to do is to be there for them to help prevent those kind of emergencies and to be there for them just to improve their quality of life. A lot of these people just need someone to spend enough time and enough effort to understand what the issues are that they're experiencing and to listen and to help them navigate those things. And the great part is, this is all now becoming integrated into our healthcare system, because we're starting to realize that we save a lot of money by keeping people healthy and by thinking about our health care in terms of the wellness of people instead of in terms of treating sickness. And so anyway, this is why we got into this business. We realized that in this personal emergency response system that we have in a lot of homes, we're able to integrate that with various peripherals, like a blood pressure cuff, like a pulse oximeter, like a glucometer, a scale spirometry, which is measuring your breathing, ekgs, lots of things.

Josh Chandler [00:08:23]:
And then of course, our device actually will detect if you have had a fall, which is a really important predictor of whether you're going to be hospitalized. Coming up soon is whether you've fallen recently. So all of those things are things that can be measured in the home and can be used to help people have a better health care experience, help them have a better life while they're here with us, so that they can feel supported, they can feel cared about, and the quality of the life that they have is drastically improved. So when we heard that this was a thing, we took a lot of resources that had been devoted to our primary business and moved them to this, mostly because we just felt like this is an opportunity to do so much to help this demographic that we've sort of grown to care about over all these years that we've been doing this.

Jon LaClare [00:09:22]:
Thank you. Great explanation of how it all works. And in knowing you, I know that you care about your customers. It's not just a revenue game, but it's about really helping and saving lives. And I love the, as I've learned more and more about this business, it's now getting earlier in that cycle of health to, as you said, help prevent rather than just save. Right. So the purrs oftentimes is add a fall, add an injury potentially, or when there's a problem. But hey, how do we avoid those from happening entirely? And I've been able to talk with in this process, a few of your customers directly, and they are enamored.

Jon LaClare [00:09:56]:
They love the service that's provided to them, and they can see great returns on it. But I can also speak to it personally. So I'm not your normal target market. I think it's typically 65 plus is the user of this or those that have diabetes, et cetera. But it's interesting. I went through this system to really understand it in preparing for the marketing of this program, and I started measuring my own blood glucose. I'm not diabetic. I've never done that to myself before, other than in blood tests every, probably not as often as I should, but with my family physician.

Jon LaClare [00:10:29]:
But I saw something interesting where the first time I measured my own, it was fairly high pre diabetic numbers. Right. So I kind of got scared a little bit, and then I measured it every day for a period of time. I think it was two weeks or so. And what I saw was it was really during a very high stress time for me. For a couple of days it was high, and then it went back down. And that's one of those things you can't really fully understand, stand with a once a year, twice a year visit to your doctor because it's that snapshot. But what I learned for myself is okay for my own blood glucose, it's not really that bad, but during a time, it was, and I need to learn to manage my stress so it doesn't stay up at those levels, but also understand what drives that.

Jon LaClare [00:11:06]:
I learned so much through this process, whatever our health is at, of course, those that especially need it for the glucose, for blood pressure as prescribed by doctors, is where the real benefit comes.

Josh Chandler [00:11:17]:
Yeah, I love that, John. I think this will expand over time. I hope that this will become a standard of care for more people. I get that everybody comes at this a little bit differently, some of us. I like to know how I'm doing on this kind of stuff. I'm happy. Like, I want to look at my phone and see how many steps I took. That's interesting to me.

Josh Chandler [00:11:48]:
I like to know I'm crazy enough. I'll do a scan of my whole body every so often to see how I'm doing on weight loss and that kind of thing, and everybody's a little bit different. But what's interesting is if you'll just start paying attention to it, just having the data, you don't even maybe go into it thinking, oh, I have a problem. I need this data. You sort of just say, okay, let's just see if there's anything here. And then pretty soon, you start to get really interesting pieces like this. And for those who have diabetes, those who have hypertension problems, those who are falling, have balance issues, and just anybody kind of working on, I think COPD is a pretty common one. People who are working on that kind of a problem, to solve it, you really need more data than you have, and it needs to be more individualized.

Josh Chandler [00:12:45]:
So if you had been a client of ours, John, what would have happened is then somebody would have called you at least once a week, they'll be calling you and they'll say, okay, I see what happened. You had a spike here. This is actually pretty high. Can you tell me more about what happened during that time frame? Were you under a lot of stress? Were you eating too much? How was your sleep pattern? And our folks are trained to know. They're supervised by your physician. They're trained to know what to ask and sort of to record all of that in a chart so that when you get to your physician, your physician not only has this really cool chart with all of the trends, but can actually when they see something that's concerning, can drill down into that very date and say, okay, this is what John told his assigned medical assistant about why that may have happened or what he thinks that may be due to and just really provides a completely different opportunity in terms of the level of care that your primary care physician can provide.

Jon LaClare [00:13:58]:
And I've spoken with a few of your medical assistants or checkpoint health specialists, the ones that meet weekly and interviewed them as part of this process, too. And it's great to see how much they care. Right. They get to know their audience. They were some of the ones that recommended that I speak with some of the customers or patients, and they had relationships. They knew who these people were. They knew what they were going through, et cetera, and obviously didn't share anything confidential with me, but just their tear was there and it was great to see. And then when I saw the other side from the patient's perspective, it was almost like a part of their family.

Jon LaClare [00:14:28]:
Somebody was watching out for them. But the really interesting thing to me is what you just mentioned, which is the physician. So this is, in my mind, really a game changer for physicians who get into this field, which is hard. It's a lot of work, a lot of time to become a physician. And then you're so limited in how much time you can spend with each patient, just driven by whatever. Right. So the economic situation, whatever it might be, but they just don't or can't spend as much time as they would love to. This gives them that snapshot weekly.

Jon LaClare [00:14:57]:
Right. So not just seeing you once every six months or every year, but being able to see the story of what's going on with your health and really being able to help in unique ways. I imagine you've heard great responses from physicians throughout this process as think it's.

Josh Chandler [00:15:13]:
The funny thing is. Let me back up. We have a chief medical officer, Dr. Roy Brown, who is, I think he's the best physician I know. I think he's incredibly bright. He's got a PhD and an MBA. He's also a physician, so he loves school, but he's also really bright. And in addition to this, he will tell you, and he explained this to me.

Josh Chandler [00:15:39]:
He said, the problem is that as we move into this model of care that is supposed to be preventative and it's supposed to be managed and taken care of by this primary care physician. But at the same time, the money that we spend on healthcare doesn't get directed to the primary care physician to do these kind of things. It gets directed to surgeries and new techniques, and that's just the way our system functions. We can have a whole nother discussion, John. It's probably be a completely different podcast. Probably don't want to have that discussion about why it is that we do that and why it is that we're focused so much on fixing people who are sick and not necessarily on keeping people well. But the point is, these guys, these primary care physicians, are the ones on whom the whole burden of improving health care costs in our system has come to rest. It may not be fair, but that's the way it is.

Josh Chandler [00:16:42]:
And their compensation is not suddenly going up. If they spend an hour with you discussing all of these things and all of your health needs, they get paid the same as if they've spent 1520 minutes with you. And they need to be able to quickly digest as much information as they possibly can so that they can understand and not miss things that can be really helpful to you and keep you out of the hospital, especially for a patient demographic that is mostly elderly. So I think it's incredible opportunity for us to start thinking about our health care in a much different and much more proactive and more humane kind of a way, I guess. I really like the idea that, and I know our patients love it, and I know that our mas love it. We love this family atmosphere that develops as you share with somebody how you're doing, and they can see how you're doing and they talk to you and they care about you and they help you, and there's nothing like it. There's sort of an intangible benefit there that's really totally on top of the savings and the physician, all of which are real, don't get me wrong, but I think there's this whole, I don't know, this special relationship that develops after.

Jon LaClare [00:18:15]:
Seeing behind the scenes. It's really to second really everything you're saying. I see it as a change to the healthcare industry that's really overdue, right. To be able to get the care we need and want and that the physicians really want to provide as well. I want to shift gears for a second and talk again about back to the business side of this. So you've been very successful as a business for many years, and a lot of that, not everything, but a lot of it comes from buying leads and then converting those to sales. And a lot of our audience, whatever business they might be in, whether it's they sell a product, they've got a service related business, maybe it's healthcare, like yourself, a lot of them are probably getting reached out to by people trying to sell them leads. We get it all the time as a marketing agency.

Jon LaClare [00:18:57]:
Give us a lot of money, we'll give you leads every month or whatever. The hard part is always, okay, I can get leads. How do I convert those to sales? So I'd love to understand your process. Maybe some advice, if you have any, for our audience. How have you guys been so successful in turning leads into actual sales or revenue?

Josh Chandler [00:19:15]:
Yeah. Okay, so let me first just say this, and I've talked to quite a few business owners. I'm actually shocked how many business owners and how many executives at companies who are sort of looking at this stuff do not understand their basic metrics and what they need to be. So before you even have a conversation about what leads you're going to purchase and how you're going to convert them and all those things, you really have to know what the overall economic model of your business is. And I think step one, of course, as we all know, is, okay, what are we going to sell this thing for? Whatever this widget is? And then what are the costs of this item? But really more important when you're talking about marketing, is what is a customer worth to you over the long haul? Do you understand what your actual long term customer value is? How much will a customer buy from you over their lifetime? How much of that will wind up in your pocket in terms of profit? And then probably the single most important factor in most of that for most businesses is actually what do you have to spend in terms of marketing to make that happen? All of this is sort of this big equation. And if you don't know what the equation looks like, then you haven't even gotten to first base yet. You don't even know yet anything about your business. From my perspective, it's hard to even understand how you could manage a business if you don't understand all of those things.

Josh Chandler [00:21:10]:
Now, having said that, when you start out, you never know any of it. Only way you can know it is to sort of try it. And a lot of the folks who watch or listen to this podcast may be familiar with Eric Reese's book, the Lean Startup. It has an interesting idea, which is get to what he calls a minimum viable product, a product that is good enough to sell for a price that you can feel good about, that you feel like you're delivering a good enough value on, and then do it. My brother and I have a saying that we live by. And that saying is, and my brother is our CEO and my co founder of both our primary purse business and also checkpoint health. Our saying is you will learn more in an hour of trying something than you will learn in weeks and weeks of researching. Just try it.

Josh Chandler [00:22:04]:
Just get out there and try it. And you kind of have to know that that's what you're doing. You have to know what the information points are that you're trying to understand and sort of nail those first. I think once you know those, then you can sort of back into where your sales engine needs to get to to be able to close deals. When we've done leads, we've done so many different ways of selling our product. We've done sales that are.

Announcer [00:22:39]:
Sort of.

Josh Chandler [00:22:40]:
A very traditional outbound, reaching out to folks. We don't really do exactly telemarketing. We do have folks who will sign up and ask for information through an online campaign, and we'll reach out to them and see if they're interested in signing up. But we've done lead sources of all different kinds. And at the end of the day, it always goes back to this math problem. And if you have a handle on that math problem, then that's sort of step one of the battle, I guess I would say. That'd be the first thing I would say is if you don't yet know what your math problem is, that is, you don't know what it's going to cost you to acquire a customer, your customer acquisition cost, and you don't know your lifetime value of a customer in terms of gross margin to you. You've got to start there, or at least start with some goals or assumptions around that.

Josh Chandler [00:23:41]:
And then the next thing I would say is you've got to have an engine that produces efficiently. And you got to understand that as you scale that engine up, it will produce less and less efficiently. It's just the law of diminishing marginal returns. You can always produce sales super efficiently if you don't produce too many. Right. If the only people you're talking to are the people who are googling your company's name, you will close a lot of those people. But if you're talking to people who didn't know anything about even your product category, which is where we are with checkpoint health, it's a really pretty new product category. A lot of people don't know much about it, haven't heard much about it.

Josh Chandler [00:24:22]:
It sounds exciting to them, but they're not familiar. Then you just have to plan on a little bit longer process of like. I guess that would be step one. I have some other thoughts, but I think I've gone on long enough now, John. I want to see if I'm on the right track and if there's other things that maybe. I have some other thoughts, but I'll wait and see what you.

Jon LaClare [00:24:47]:
Absolutely. I'll just. I want to say I think you've described that process better than I've heard anybody in a lot of marketing conferences or people I've talked with. And I try to share this story many times. So, great job. I think what it comes down to, as you mentioned, is you got to figure out your profit per customer. And then, as you kind of said, that comes down to lifetime value, your acquisition costs. With marketing, there's so much that goes into it.

Jon LaClare [00:25:08]:
Once you know that, you know how much you can spend. And if you have a better handle on that than your competitors, you may have the same profitability. But if you understand it and they don't, now you can spend more. Right. Once you realize how much profit might be behind, or either that, or they will spend more and they'll spend themselves into oblivion. But that data, that understanding is so important. So I think you described it in a great way, but I'd love to. If you've got other thoughts, please share.

Josh Chandler [00:25:34]:
Yeah, no, I think the other thing is, once you know what that equation needs to look like, or what are the pieces of it, and you're going to think of it as a funnel, right. You're going to say, okay, I've got this many people that are going to come into step one, which is maybe they'll click on an ad, and then I've got this many people who will come to step two, which is maybe they'll fill out a form. And I've got this many people who will answer a phone call. I've got this many people who will say yes, and give me their credit card and all of those things. You kind of have to understand it in that way and build all of that into your model. But once you have that sort of understanding of what data you need, then you've got to build an information model. I call it, it's a data collection and extraction model that says, okay, how am I going to make sure that I actually know how many people come into the top of the funnel and how many make it to the second? Because as I understand each piece of it, then I can focus on conversion at any one of those sort of levels of the funnel coming down. And you can affect dramatically your conversion by doing a few things.

Josh Chandler [00:26:41]:
For example, we have a customer, we have a pretty good sense of how, of their approach to customer service compared to our approach to customer service. This happened to us a while ago. We started to understand they were keeping about double the number of customers that we were keeping, just in terms of retention. And we try to figure out, well, what is it that they're doing that we're not. When you see that and you get that sort of information, that's the kind of way that you can really start to optimize. So, yeah, I think it's figuring out what the equation needs to be and then building a model, a data collection funnel that tells you as much as you can know. And then to your point, I mean, if you have a handle on that, then all of a sudden, even if the marketing budget goes really high, it doesn't scare you, you know what your ROI is and you're comfortable. I guess I think of that as business 101.

Josh Chandler [00:27:46]:
I wouldn't have thought of that as business 101 before I became an owner, but I do now.

Jon LaClare [00:27:54]:
Yeah, well said. You mentioned the book lean startup, which I'll second is a fantastic book. You can learn a lot from my encourager audience. If you haven't read it, please do. You'll learn a lot. I think, to be honest, this podcast, I think people are going to rewind and listen to a couple of times as well. But Josh, are there any other books or other resources that have been helpful for you and your business?

Josh Chandler [00:28:13]:
Yeah, well, okay. So on the marketing side, I love Donald Miller's books. I like building a story brand and his whole story brand stuff. My real advice to you though, is unless you can't really afford an agency, you owe it to yourself to find somebody great, like harvest growth, who can do that stuff for you. You really do. I've tried to do it. I think I'm okay at it. And yet, you never know.

Josh Chandler [00:28:47]:
To go back to our prior problem, one of the things you never know is whether and how much you really have optimized your marketing campaign, because it's really hard for you to do. Let me back up. It takes persistence and discipline to sort of make sure that every step along the way, you're testing each different hypothesis well and clearly, and you have a good sense that you have now determined that this way is better than that way. So there's a lot of a b testing, and a b testing can be ac defgh all the way down to the Alphabet testing. And all of that just takes time, it takes effort, it takes money. And if you get a pro involved early, you will spend less doing that. But I still think it's good for all of your people to understand building a story brand or those kind of principles. And to me, the main insight from what I've gleaned from Donald Miller is the customer is always the hero.

Josh Chandler [00:29:51]:
And make sure that you position yourself as the person who can help them get what it is that they want. It seems so easy. It's easy to explain. And yet when I do marketing stuff, which I don't do, I hire pros. It's easy to mess up. So that's one. And then the other one I love is a book by Marty Kagan, who it's called inspired. And Marty was an early exec, I want to say PayPal, but I'm almost sure that's not right.

Josh Chandler [00:30:31]:
But he's been in Silicon Valley for a long time, and his focus is product management. As you're refining your marketing strategy, you're going to be doing the same thing with your product market fit, and you're going to be refining it so that it more closely matches whatever it is that your audience actually wants. You're going to learn some things, and there's a couple of ways. You can tweak things, right? You can tweak how you market and how you sell, or you can actually, especially with software or software enabled products, which a lot of people are selling these days. And even now in hardware, you can do this where you couldn't before. You can iterate and kind of tweak it so that it just has just that one little thing. Here's a great example of that. When we first started our business, we would do video conference all the time, and we used this company called Skype.

Josh Chandler [00:31:26]:
Maybe you've heard of it.

Jon LaClare [00:31:28]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Josh Chandler [00:31:29]:
And no one uses Skype anymore, right? That's not a thing. Skype is like not a thing. And it was as simple as Zoom understood that there's huge value in not having to create an account, not having to log in, having it be free, and having it just work. You just give somebody a link, they click the link, and it works. And that little insight has totally changed the game of video conferencing. And it wasn't a huge insight, it was just one little thing. And I think sometimes you see your results, you're like, oh, we're miles away from anything good. And a lot of times you're not miles away.

Josh Chandler [00:32:10]:
You're one little thing that's creating just enough friction to keep those customers away. Yeah.

Jon LaClare [00:32:18]:
And I would add, kind of combining those two story brand inspired as well, is sometimes the product or service might be right, but how you talk about it, right. The benefits that you focus on it might be the story behind it that make the biggest difference. So, yeah. Well said. I have not read inspired. I've heard about it. So on your recommendation, I'll have to check that one out. Next story brand I've used.

Jon LaClare [00:32:39]:
And I second that for sure. It's a great book. Well, Josh, is there anything I didn't ask you that you think would be helpful for our.

Josh Chandler [00:32:47]:
Think? I think probably the most important thing that if I were like a listener, that if I were trying to talk to each listener individually and say, here's the thing that I would love for you to take away. I'd say spend the time to build or have somebody help you build this model that we talked about around your marketing and around your spend and around that basic equation of your business and what it takes to win. I really feel like if you don't understand that it's just too hard to be successful, you'll get beat to your point by competitors. I think we were surprised when we first got into business 15 years ago that, yeah. Oh, wow. There's other people out there who are going to do something like what you're doing. And that's just the breaks, right? That's how life works. That's how consumers get better products as people learn to make a better product and compete.

Josh Chandler [00:33:52]:
And all of us have competitors. And the way to win, though, is to know those numbers on a deep level and understand what levers to pull. And so I just encourage everybody to have that model and then to just experiment and run really good experiments and have that be your focus, because you will find it's a bad example, probably. But I like to use the Beanie babies as an example. Okay. I'll just admit that that product makes no sense to me. I have no idea. I don't have the mindset that's like, oh, I've got to have Henry the hippo.

Josh Chandler [00:34:36]:
I don't know if there was a Henry the hippo, but if there was a Henry the hippo, or whatever it is, I don't understand that mindset. But somebody got it. Somebody figured out that, oh, I can make these nice, cute little toys, and if I make some that are super scarce and super hard to get and interesting, this will become a fun little hobby, and it'll be a collector's item, and we'll get people involved. Your business, whatever your business is, is probably an insight or two or three away from something like that. And the only way you're going to find it out is to just learn to run those experiments and run them as cheaply and quickly as you can so that you can get to the answers and know what to do next. So that would be, I guess, sort of the parting thought.

Jon LaClare [00:35:24]:
Well, Josh, this has been an amazing interview. I really enjoyed it. I'm going to go back and listen to it again, and I'm sure my audience will as well. I know how busy you are, so thank you so much for taking the time to our audience. I do encourage you. Check out Josh's website for his business. Try checkpoint.com if you're driving, it's in the show notes. You can refer back to the show on YouTube or on any podcast platform that you listen to.

Jon LaClare [00:35:47]:
It's in there as well. But try checkpoint.com even if you're not in the market for yourself or maybe a loved one or elderly parent, check it out for yourself and you can see some of the work that Josh has done and put into this business and learn from his great success. Again, thank you, Josh. I really appreciate it.

Josh Chandler [00:36:02]:
Yeah, thank you, John. This has been a fantastic opportunity, so I appreciate it.

Jon LaClare [00:36:06]:
Did you know you can meet with a member of my team absolutely free for a 30 minutes strategy consultation? We've launched and grown hundreds of products since 2007 and learned some of our strategies while growing Oxiclean back in the Billy Mays days. We're here to help. So please go to harvestgrowth.com and set up a call if you'd like to discuss further.